>>QU> It is wrong for a women to be in any position of authority in the church that deals with administration and rule in the church.
As regarding "rule", I agree with [QU], but administration or "ministering to the saints" is permitted. However, women are not given the ministry of teaching men doctrine in the local church. In the churches, women are to "keep silence" and "learn in silence."
>CQ> ...have any women teachiers in sunday school? Are those teachers teaching segregated classes, or are the sunday school classes mixed, boys & girls. See biblically, at age 12-13 boys became men.
The biblical age when "children" become "men of war" is twenty. When the twelve spies returned from scouting the land of promise, and Israel refused to obey the LORD's command to enter the land, the LORD decided to eliminate all the "men" of that evil generation, except Joshua and Caleb.
"Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it." (Deut.1:39)
The age of the "men" was "twenty years old and upward", so their little ones and children were therefore less than twenty years old. (In plainer words, Teenagers are "children"! :)
>CQ> If you are arguing biblical reasonings for women *not* teaching or preaching to men, then you *must* have male teachers for boys as young as 12.
(If they're men, why do you yet call them "boys as young as 12."? :)
>CQ> I have seen many denominations which refuse to ordain women locally, but will allow women to go overseas as a missionary to preach & teach elsewhere. Are they only preaching to & teaching women on the mission field?
(The LITTLE inconsistencies of life tend to pile up after awhile. :)
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (1Tim.2:11,12)
The elder women are supposed to, "teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." (Titus 2:4p,5)
Remember that Jesus is the Lord and cherish the truth of God's word. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with us all. Amen. --Richard
>>RC> "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (1Tim.2:12 :)
>CF> Ah yes Mister (master) Clark, I see that you are another misogynist!<
Having been informed by my dictionary that a "misogynist" is someone that hates women, which I most certainly do not, therefore, "The Lord reprove thee." (And my dad is Mister... I'm just Richard. :)
>CF> So far you have not heard a single "sound" from me. :-o
Well, I haven't heard the "sounds of silence" from you anyway. You don't hear audible sounds in your ears when the heavens declare the glory of God, but their sound is gone out into all the earth; There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
>CF> The subject was "Teaching" with a capital "T" and it does not say "woman" it says "wife" "gune" in the Greek.
The pure word of God says: "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (1Tim.2:11,12 w/Emp.)
>CF> It is speaking of the wife not usurping "authority" over her husband (Aner).
The Bible doesn't say husband, but "man", and the greek doesn't say "Aner" there, but "andros". (Be not deceived. :)
>CF> So the discussion is not about women passing on knowledge or information to men, but rather about not usurping authority.
The apostle Paul's command is not a matter of discussion, but a matter of obedience. (Usurping the authority of the Holy Spirit is far worse than usurping the man's authority. Be not deceived.)
Eve was deceived when she ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and indeed she informed Adam with the knowledge that he was naked. He wasn't deceived into eating. "Who told thee that thou wast naked?" - "The woman..." (Gen.2:11p,12p) The man hearkened unto the teaching of the woman, instead of obeying the commandment of the Lord.
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law." (1Cor.14:34)
"Ministering to the saints" is indeed something women are permitted to do; However, women are not given the ministry of teaching men doctrine in the local church. In the churches, women are to "keep silence" and "learn in silence."
Remember that Jesus is the Lord and cherish the truth. Grace be with your heart in understanding, for Jesus' sake. Amen. --Richard
>>>>RC> "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (1Tim.2:12 :)
>>>CF> Ah yes Mister (master) Clark, I see that you are another misogynist!<
>>RC> Having been informed by my dictionary that a "misogynist" is someone that hates women, which I most certainly do not, therefore, "The Lord reprove thee." (And my dad is Mister... I'm just Richard. :)
>CF> I think from the insulting tone of your messages to me that I would be forgiven for mistaking you for a misogynist.
Dear gentle reader; No such "tone" was put in that message on this end as you imagine. And as for forgiveness, it is written, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." When you receive his forgiveness do you not also feel his face smile upon you? (And didst thou not see the words of my heart above smile upon thee also? :)
"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" (2Cor.10:5)
>CF> However, from your response I gather that you must still be a minor? Then *you* should be careful how you speak to your elders. :-) 1 Tim 5:1-2.
Oh no, SISTER! (: smile :) I can smell the bait in that Australian kangaroo trap all the way here in the "hill country" of Kentucky. Far be it from me to ask the age of a woman, or to treat any woman as old. ("Minor? No, Elder! my mother is still 29 in her heart. :)
My heart is set on following the Lord's example: Where do you see the Lord revealing the age of any woman in the Bible except Sarah? Obviously the Lord is as discreet about the matter of the age of women, as they are themselves. And would the Lord have mentioned her age if Sarah herself had not made an issue of it by denying that she laughed in her heart when the Lord said she would have a son? (Well, anyway, as a young-in-heart woman on Star Trek said to "Mister" Adventure: "Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it!" :)
(After Isaac [whose name means laughter!] was born, Sarah said, "God hath made me to laugh, so that all that hear will laugh with me." :)
(: "Laughter prevents hardening of the attitudes." :)
(: Tilting to look at SMILEYS limbers up stiff necks! :)
(: "A merry heart doeth good like a medicine"! Prov 'erbs 17:22p :)
(: Feel any better yet? Please see next message. Thanks. :)
>CF> You are not permitted to rebuke your elders, you are supposed to treat women with courtesy. 1 Peter 3:8.
There was no "rebuke" of any woman by me. The comment to thee said only, "The Lord reprove thee." (If the Lord Jesus required me to instead say, "The Lord REBUKE thee"; yet would I not be blamed, for after all; the "Ancient of days" is elder than us all! O:)
"And unto Sarah he said, Behold, I have given thy brother a thousand pieces of silver: behold, he is to thee a covering of the eyes, unto all that are with thee, and with all other: thus she was reproved." (: Gen.20:16 :)
>>RC> The pure word of God says: "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
>>>CF> It is speaking of the wife not usurping "authority" over her husband (Aner).
>>RC> The Bible doesn't say husband, but "man", and the greek doesn't say "Aner" there, but "andros". (Be not deceived. :)
>CF> Sorry but I used the root as shown by Strongs.
No sweat. (If you steam carrots first, they're easier to chew. :)
>>RC> "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law." (1Cor.14:34)
>CF> This same letter also tells men to keep silence. verse 28.
An unknown tongue speaker with no interpreter was to keep silence.
>CF> Women were permitted to prophecy.
Sure, but in the churches "women" are commanded to "keep silence." (Why didn't you pull the GUNE-root in 1Cor.14:34p, and claim WIVES should "keep silence", but virgins and widows can prophesy? :)
(Please take a "gander" at next message. Thanks. :)
>CF> I refer you to Luke 2:36-38. Anna the prophetess used to prophecy in the Temple itself.
Ah yes, Anna the "widow", whose namesake Hannah in the book of Samuel: "spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard..." --1Sam.1:13p ("sounds of silence"? Hannah's prayer in 1Sam.2:1-10 is one of my favorite prophecies in the Bible. :)
>CF> Are you suggesting that she should have kept silence?
(Luke's record is silent concerning any sounds from her mouth! :)
Interesting kwinky-dink! Sarah lived 37 years after she thought she had waxed too old to bare a child, and it is in Luke 2:37 that we find mention of the age of another woman, younger than Sarah was when she laughed at what the Lord said. (What did Anna laugh at? :)
If Anna was, (not in the court of the women,) but, as you said, "in the Temple itself", and departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day, (as Luke said;) Then, back in Luke 1, at the time of prayer, when the angel Gabriel told Zacharias that his wife Elisabeth (whom Anna knew was well stricken in years,) would bare a son... (Anna did too laugh! "Ha, ha." :)
At what "instant" did Anna enter the picture in Luke 2? YEAH! At the instant that Simeon, holding the child Jesus in his arms, had said: " (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed." (Lk.2:35)
And Anna, whose name means, GRACE; she who had been silent since she took the final words of Gabriel to heart, (Amen!) even the string of Anna's tongue was loosed in that "instant", and she thanked God, and "spake of him to all them that look for redemption in Jerusalem."
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Heb.4:12)
Grace be to your heart in believing the word of God as it is in truth, the word of God, and not the word of men. (Nay; but thou didst laugh! :) God bless y'all, for Jesus' sake. Amen. --Richard
>>RC> Eve was deceived when she ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and indeed she informed Adam with the knowledge that he was naked. He wasn't deceived into eating. "Who told thee that thou wast naked?" - "The woman..." (Gen.3:11p,12p) The man hearkened unto the teaching of the woman, instead of obeying the commandment of the Lord.
>CF> Sorry Richard but you are just plain wrong once again. The woman did not tell Adam that he was naked.
>CF> I suggest that you read Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked:
Are you so blind? The Lord asked Adam two questions in Gen.3:11, and Adam gave a two-part answer in Gen.3:12, and the Lord's two-part condemnation in Gen.3:17 confirms that he hearkened to the woman. The first part of each--
The Lord: "Who told thee that thou wast naked?"
Adam: "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me,"
The Lord: "Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife,"
Can you not see that? The woman ate first! She saw that Adam was naked, and told him so! (Like Ham telling his brothers about Noah's nakedness.) She gave him some of the grapes to eat also, so he could see for himself. Adam wasn't deceived by what the serpent said to the woman, nor by what the woman said to the serpent, but rather, he hearkened unto what the woman said to him about his own nakedness, instead of hearkening unto the commandment of the Lord.
Sin did not enter the world when the woman ate, but later, when the man to whom "alone" the commandment was given, ate; THEN it was, that, by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin.
The Lord Jesus gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world. He arose from the dead for our justification through faith in his blood. The word of faith says, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Be not silent in that regard. Amen. :)
Grace be to your heart, in love for Jesus' sake. Amen. --Richard
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