>>QU> Because God *already* knew how long a day was...
>CQ> Already knew for which Planet? For which System?
The planet (and substance thereof) spoken of is "Earth" (Gen.1:10p). (See also "planets" and "worlds" mentioned in 2Kng.23:5 & Heb.1:2.)
>CQ> How do they define "day"? If they define it the way I do, then the story needs some interesting interpretation when the first day was before day and night were created.
On the FIRST day, God said: "Let there be light." (And there was light.) And he divided the light from the darkness.
"And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Gen.1:5)
Both "day" and "night" were plainly defined on the 1st day. Notice also that both meanings for the word "day" given in the above quoted verse were LITERAL. The first mention of "day" is in the sense of "daylight", as Jesus said, "Are there not twelve hours in the day?"
The second mention of "day" is what we now commonly call a 24-hour day, one complete earth-rotation cycle of night and day. [An "hour" is defined as one twenty-fourth of a day, (or 15 degrees earth rotation,) so obviously they were 24-hour days. :]
A third meaning for "day" in the larger sense of "age," is found in Genesis 2:4, with the length being defined by the context of usage, as we find in expressions like: "Back in my father's day...." [So, technically, the "day thou eastest thereof" in Gen.2:17p is also an "age" type of day. :]
>CQ> What was the exact word used in the original Greek or Hebrew text? Was the word "day" used? I am sure that it wasn't
Be not wise in your own conceits. The fact that you thrice used the word "was" (past tense) indicates you were not speaking of anything that IS written and AVAILABLE at present. The word "day" has equivalent words in other languages. Don't you think in english?
>CQ> You are relying on an English translation of a obsolete foreign language, at least 4000 years after the event happened.
Obsolete? Get serious. People still speak Hebrew and Greek. No, Friend, by the grace of God, I am relying on the Lord Jesus Christ and his sure word of prophecy made available to anyone that truly desires the truth of these things. Anyone can see that the word "day" in Genesis 1:5 is scientifically defined in the context.
The fact that a LITERAL day can also be used as symbolic of something greater, does not cancel the literal meaning. Be not deceived by vain philosophy. Grace be unto you for Jesus' sake. Amen. --Richard
>>RC> ...as Jesus said, "Are there not twelve hours in the day?"
>CQ> Depends what time of the year it is...
What time of the year was it, when he made the statement? (He did NOT say "a" day, but "the" day: That day was 12 hours. :)
The statement is recorded in John 11:9. Time of year indicators are found in the chapters before and after. December-February in chapter 10, and March/April in chapter 12. The place the statement was made, was "beyond Jordan" (east side); around 30 degrees north latitude.
The day of the statement was seemingly the same day Lazarus died. The Lord raised him from the dead the fourth day; "and the Jews' passover was nigh at hand." After the raising of Lazarus, Jesus spent some time away from the Jerusalem area and returned "six days before the passover."
When is the vernal (spring) equinox? This year (1997AD) the equinox was March 20th at 08:56am EST. At 30 degrees north latitude, the day when there was exactly 12 hours in the day was =4= days before that. (Remember also that the word "day" was defined on the first day of creation, but the sun, moon & stars were ["made"] the FOURTH day. :)
The reason for the 12-hour day being BEFORE the vernal (and later than the autumnal) equinox is due to latitude of observation, and the fact that the rise and set times are based on when the upper edge (not center) of the sun is at the [apparent] horizon.
Calculation of local apparent time would also have to take into account elevation, which in the case of the Jordan rift valley is more than a 1000 feet BELOW mean sea level. 12-hours on a sundial would begin and end at exactly opposite times, or 180 degrees. Atmospheric refraction would have to be taken into account also. All indications are that Jesus made the statement at a time when there were -exactly- "twelve hours in the day." (John 11:9p)
There may be more that can be said about these things, but this seems sufficient for now. Remember that Jesus is the Lord and that the day of the Lord is coming soon. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved! Grace be unto you all. Amen. --Richard
>>>>RC> ...as Jesus said, "Are there not twelve hours in the day?"
>>>CQ2> Depends what time of the year it is...
>>RC> What time of the year was it, when he made the statement? (He did NOT say "a" day, but "the" day: That day was 12 hours. :)
>CQ> Not at all, according to the ancient reckoning. The daylight period was divided into 12 equal parts called "hours" so they varied in length depending on the time of the year. What we call dawn was the first hour and sunset was the end of the 12th hour. Noon was the sixth hour.
Reckoning? As was said in the part of the message you ignored: "The statement is recorded in John 11:9." Matthew, Mark and Luke reckoned NOON as the sixth hour, but in John, we see that 6am was called the "sixth hour" (Jn.19:14p), according to the Roman "reckoning" of time.
In "Natural History" by Pliny the Elder we read: "The day itself has been differently observed in different countries: by the Babylonians between two sunrises; by the Athenians between two sunsets; by the Umbrians from noon to noon; by the Roman priests and those who have defined the civil day, as the Egyptians also and Hipparchus, from midnight to midnight."
It is evident also in John 20:19 that John used the Roman reckoning. It was after sunset sunday, but he still called it "the first day".
As for your variable length hours contention; around the time of the Exodus, some Egyptians were using an "unequal hour" LINEAR sundial that divided the mornings and afternoons into 6 parts regardless of the changing length of day; HOWEVER the "hour-angle" (polar-axis gnomon) type sundial was already in use before the Christian Era; an "hour" being defined as 15 (out of 360) degrees "apparent" sun movement. In the "summer half" of the year, there are more than twelve of such "hours" in a day. (At the north pole, in the "land" of the midnight sun, a "day" is about six MONTHS long! :)
The yearly "0 to 16 minutes" difference between clock time and solar hour-angle time, is due to the fact that clock time is based on an average or "mean" length of "day" (earth rotation) "relative" to the sun, which includes our orbital motion around the sun. (The earth moves fastest about January 4th, and slows down until July 5th. :)
"Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down." (Isa.38:8)
Ten degrees sun movement is two-thirds of an hour or FORTY minutes. It [has been claimed that] by comparing ancient astronomical records before and after the days of Hezekiah, that there is exactly FORTY minutes difference between meridian star positions; confirming the fact that the Lord did indeed cause the appearance of the sun to do as stated.
Remember that Jesus is the Lord and receive the love of the truth. Grace be to your heart, in love for Jesus' sake. Amen. --Richard
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