No water in hell

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: "baptize" = "immerse"? NO!

>>>CQ> At Pentecost - when the Holy Spirit fell on the 120 people in the upper room, were they engulfed (immersed) in flames?

>>RC> There is no mention of 120 people in the upper room. Those that

>CQ> Try Acts 1: 13-15.

Those that "abode" in the upper room are all named (Acts 1:13), and there were only "eleven." The meeting with the others (Acts 1:15) was NOT said to be in the upper room, nor even the same day as Acts 1:13.

>>RC> And the day of Pentecost was obviously later than that, and Peter stood up "with the eleven" (Acts 2:14p) when he addressed the "multitude" that had gathered in Jerusalem.

>>RC> "...Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place." (Acts 1:26p; 2:1) The "they" is the apostles.

>CQ> True enough that the number is not again repeated in Acts 2:1 where it is said that "they were *all* together in one place". I can see where one might say the election of Matthias did not take place in the upper room, however, in context, it would seem more likely that it did than that it did not since it is sandwiched between the two references to the upper room.

You don't seem to be able to see that the "they" of 2:1 refers to "the apostles" mentioned JUST BEFORE THAT. And their "upper room" is ONLY mentioned ONCE in 1:13 as the place where the apostles ("men of Galilee") were temporarily LODGING. (It is probable that the upper room of Acts 1:13 is the same as the upper room of Luke 22:12, which TWO of the disciples were led to before their last supper with the Lord before he was taken from them. Notice the word "both" in Acts 1:13. In Luke 22, both Peter and John were sent to secure the "guest chamber" in the Lord's name.)

Now notice in Acts 2:1,2 that the scene is NOT said to be an upper room, but rather is called "one place" and "the house." The "sound" filled "ALL THE HOUSE." And they were not kneeling and praying to get any so-called "gift of the holyghost", but "were sitting." The "sound" came "SUDDENLY", so we can suppose they were surprised. (THEY were told to tarry until THEY received the promise, but there is no mentioned of WHEN the promise was to be sent, just WHERE.)

(Please see next message. Thanks. :)

(2) No water in hell

>>>CQ> No - they *were* baptized in the Holy Spirit and in fire,

>>RC> No, they were baptized with the Holy Ghost. The baptism "with fire" spoken of by John the Baptist; is [no doubt] a reference to immersion in the lake of fire and brimstone, prepared for the devil and his angels.

>>RC> (You don't want to be baptized with that baptism, do you?)

>CQ> And you're right, it was John, not Christ, who said that Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire (same word used by John for his baptism by water, same word used for Christ baptizing with the Holy Spirit, same word used for Christ baptizing with fire).

By "same word", I assume you refer to "baptize", and yes. But you're wrong about what John said. The correct term is Holy GHOST (not just Spirit). The difference between spirit and ghost, is that a ghost is the spirit of someone who has died. Jesus had to "give up the ghost", BEFORE anyone could be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

>CQ> How do you explain the tongues of fire in Acts 2:3 when those in the upper room were baptised with the Holy Spirit?

There were no so-called "tongues of fire" as you supposed, (and they didn't get blown away by a rushing mighty wind either. :) Notice the words "as of" (2:2p) and "like as of" (2:3p) in those verses. In verse two, the "it" is the "sound". The phrase "rushing mighty wind" is only a description of what that sound SOUNDED like. Likewise, in verse three, the "it" is the appearance of "cloven tongues". The "fire" is only a description of what the appearance looked LIKE.

The SOUND filled all the HOUSE. And THEY were filled with the HOLY GHOST. The appearance of CLOVEN TONGUES sat upon EACH of them, (as they were sitting,) and they began to speak with other tongues, as the SPIRIT gave them utterance. (And only THEY saw the tongues.)

Remember that Jesus is the Lord and turn from your error, receiving the love of the truth and be saved from the perdition of wickedness. Grace be to them that love the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. --Richard