>>QU> But seriously, when Paul said that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.. are you suggesting that all does not mean all?
>CQ> Yes, all, in a context like this, does not mean absolutely everyone.
The "all" of Romans 3:23 is indicated by the context in Romans 3:9 where Paul said, "we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;" (Rom.3:9p)
Paul excluded himself by saying "they" instead of we; and elsewhere, he defined THREE groups of people dealt with by the scriptures: Jews, Gentiles AND the church of God: the church being only those that are truly saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus the Lord.
As for infants and small children, as it is written, "sin is not imputed when there is no law" (Rom.5:13p) - Again, it is written, "Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, [(less than 20 years of age!)] which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it." (Deut.1:39)
Moses was speaking many years after "that day", after "all the generation of the men of war were wasted out from among the host", after the "children" had grown up and by then had knowledge between good and evil, but the Lord's promise to bring THEM (with Joshua and Caleb also), into the land, was brought to pass, as it is written.
>CQ> Well then, the lost, dirty, 2 yr. old goes to Hell, right?
No, but you old, hardhearted, reprobates shall see who goes to Hell, if you don't turn from your rebellion against the word of God and get saved by grace through faith: not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us.
The word of faith says, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Be not deceived!) Remember that Jesus is the Lord and believe God, that it shall be, even as it was told thee. Grace be unto you all. Amen. --Richard
>CQ> ...question also has the underlying assumption that infants cannot be saved. The usual argument is that they cannot articulate in some fashion their salvation or faith.
The LORD knows their HEART. When I was a little child, before I learned to "articulate" the english language properly, I was at a municipal swimming pool with my parents. The air was alive with laughter and radiance and joy! There was a very tall "slipper slide" beside the pool, with a ladder for people to ascend upward towards heaven, so I got in line with them, and I was just barely able to climb up with them to the platform on top and was awaiting my turn to plunge down the slide into the watery depths. I heard a LOUD voice calling out my name, and making other sounds I didn't understand. It was my dad coming to save me! He had set aside his own fear of climbing up there, to rescue me! (Ah, but then we had to go back down the ladder instead of sliding into a huge baptismal pool. Later! :)
>CQ> My response to that... if that was indeed true and an infant or very small child was not saved, then neither would a mentally retarded 40 year old adult with the mind of a 2 year old.
You are reasoning as a man. The Lord seeth not as man seeth. The Lord says, "Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God." ANYONE, regardless of how old their body is, that has the mind and HEART of a little child in God's sight, may come unto the Lord Jesus by the grace of God.
Until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Little children that know not the law, and have no knowledge of good and evil, may be reckoned as innocent. (And, "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin!" :)
You ought not to worry about the little children, neither about the so-called "heathen that don't know", but you better be SURE of your own soul's salvation, by grace through faith, and never cease to make mention of your loved ones in the presence of the Lord, that all may be saved and come together in Christ Jesus forever. The Bible says to train up a child in the way that he should go; and the Lord Jesus Christ IS the way, and the truth, and the life! "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house"! Grace be with you and yours for Jesus' sake. Amen. --Richard
>>QU> ...they are just not held accountable until they know right from wrong, the age of accountability but if you think they are sinless you have to try to figure out at what time in
>CQ> I agree wholeheartedly except for the part of the age of acountability. That I do not find in the Scripture.
(Did you look for "accountability" in the same place where the words "unconditional election", and "depravity" appear? Not! :)
"His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind: But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself." (John 9:20,21)
His parents certainly accounted him as being of such an age as to be accountable for himself; but as to whether he was "altogether born in sins" as the [theologians] of his day claimed...
"And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him." (John 9:2,3)
And again, Jesus said to the Pharisees that rejected his witness: "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin; but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." (John 9:41p)
A precious verse to open your eyes to God's wondrous grace: "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."! (Rom.4:8) If parents consider themselves to be accountable for their children's actions, then is not God well within his right to impute his own righteousness unto them and reckon little ones to be innocent? ("Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not..." :)
"Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it." (Deut.1:39)
The little ones (pre-teens) and children (teenagers) referred to, were those that were less than "twenty" years of age when the LORD held the "men" who were of age, accountable for their rebellion against him, and the LORD said: "Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me, Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun." (Numbers 14:29,30)
Joshua & Caleb were above twenty, but they believed on the Lord, so God was pleased to count their faith for righteousness. (Caleb was "forty years old" when he "wholly followed the LORD God of Israel.")
Grace be to them that cherish the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. --Richard
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