THE Dedication (Jesus' birth)

A series of 15 messages covering the winter feast of the dedication,
insights about Solomon's Porch and Jesus' birth in early Autumn.
Copyright © 2000-2008 by Richard Clark for non-commercial personal educational use.

[1] Dedication (John 10:22p)
[2] (CQ) Dedication JN.10:22p
[3] THE Dedication
[4] "summer and winter"
[5] Solomon's Porch
[6] Morning pasture
[7] The morning after
[8] Herod?
[ 9] GRACE!
[10] MORNING GRACE!
[11] (1) Morning after
[12] (2) Morning after
[13] Morning sickness?
[14] (1) Jesus' birth
[15] (2) Jesus' birth

[1]

Dedication (John 10:22p)

From a 25Oct96 "Hanukah" message by a Curious Questioner--

>CQ> Chanukah is NOT mentioned in the Jewish Bible. It is recorded in the Apocryphal books of the Maccabees, and there is reference to it in John's Gospel that Yeshua went into the Temple on the Feast of Dedication. Chanukah commemorates the re-dedication of the Temple...

John did not say feast of "re-dedication", but "the feast of the dedication". It seems evident that the "dedication of this house of God" mentioned in Ezra 6:15-18 qualifies as a feast of dedication in the WINTER. (3rd of Adar.) Although the winter "half" of the year begins at the autumn equinox, most people don't consider winter as having begun until around December 21st; so Hanukah in late-Nov/early-Dec would not qualify as a feast in winter, but the dedication of Ezra 6 would certainly be considered to be in winter.

However, it is evident that God divides the year into two seasons, "summer and winter" (Gen.8:22p)(also Psm.74:17, Zech 14:8) Moreover, it is evident from Acts 27 that it was past time for ships to WINTER in a haven: "Now when much time was spent, and when sailing was now dangerous, because the fast was now already past..." (Acts 27:9p) People assume that "the fast" refers to the fast of Yom Kippur, the 10th day of the 7th month, (approx. beginning of October.)

"And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch." (Jn.10:22,23)

There is nothing in John 10:22 or elsewhere that would indicate an 8-day Hanukah feast, but rather a single day feast is indicated. My list of festivals observed by Jews shows 2 biblical "dedication" feasts between the time of the Feast of Tabernacles and Passover:

1. 23rd Ethanim/Tishri - dedication of Solomon's temple.
2. 3rd Adar - dedication of Zerubbabel's temple (Ezra 6:16)

Beginning in John chapter 7, you have the 7 days of the feast of TABERNACLES; and the 8th or convocation day which falls on the 22nd of Ethanim/Tishri. There is no mention of Jesus leaving Jerusalem before the John 10:22 "feast of the dedication". The next day after the 22nd is the 23rd, the feast of the dedication of Solomon's temple. At the end of John chapter 10, Jesus departed and went "beyond Jordan" and "abode" until he came to raise Lazarus from the dead, after the equinox when there are exactly "twelve hours in the day".

It does not seem right to claim that the Lord was observing the apocryphal Hanukah feast, based on Maccabean "traditions of men", rather than one of the two Bible-based temple dedication feasts. The Lord acknowledged the dedication of Solomon's temple by sending fire from heaven to consume the burnt-offering and the sacrifices, and THE GLORY OF THE LORD filled all the LORD's house. That temple was burnt down, but Solomon's porch which was made of great stones that were sawed with saws: those DEDICATED stones were not burnt up. Verily, at the feast of [the] dedication Jesus walked in Solomon's porch!

Grace be to them that love the truth for Jesus' sake. Amen. --Richard


[2]

(CQ) Dedication JN.10:22p

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: Dedication (John 10:22p)

>>RC> John did not say feast of "re-dedication", but "the feast of the dedication".

>CQ> John was referring to a specific Dedication -- not one of several, generic dedications. John had no reason to be ambiguous -- it IS Hanukkah being referred to -- an observance that was in practice for some 200 years before Yeshua came. To assume otherwise flies in the face of reason.

You have the Feast of Tabernacles beginning in John chapter 7, and "the last day, that great day of the feast" in John 7:37; and Jesus spent the night at the mount of Olives in John 8:1, and in John 8:2 "early in the morning he came again into the temple", etc.

Plainly that morning was the 23rd day of the 7th month, (and a weekly "sabbath day" that year) when THE FEAST OF THE DEDICATION of Solomon's temple was observed. There is no mention of Jesus leaving Jerusalem until John 10:39,40. Notice that before mention of "the dedication" in John 10:22, he was talking about "sheep" (10:1-16), and as Jesus walked in Solomon's porch, he continued saying things about "sheep" by way of reminder, as he said: "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." Remember that Jesus is the Lord and receive the love of the truth. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you and yours. Amen. --Richard


[3]

THE Dedication

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: (SB) Dedication Jn.10:22p

>CQ> However, if you desire to put forward a thesis that somehow my people celebrated the dedication of Solomon's Temple as an annual holiday, you will have to come up with some proofs to that effect.

The "Chart of Jewish Festivals" on page 600 of the Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia, plainly says, "dedication of Solomon's temple" as being observed on the 23rd of Eth'anim/Tis'ri, the day after the special/final ("great") day of the Feast of Tabernacles.

>CQ> Of course it really would make no sense to observe a feast of dedication to a Temple that was not standing.....

Standing? Walking! Jesus was walking in SOLOMON'S PORCH on the very stones of the porch Solomon built, that remained to that day; which day was immediately after the final day of the Feast of Tabernacles, the 23rd of Ethanim, as has been proven in previous messages.

I have no problem whatsoever with anyone observing Channukah, but it is not right to make false claims about the Bible, or about Jesus. There simply is no reason to believe that the "dedication" where Jesus walked in Solomon's porch was at any time other than the day following the end of the Feast of Tabernacles.

In John 7:37 was "the last day, that great day of the feast" of Tabernacles. In John 8:1,2p "JESUS went unto the mount of Olives. And early in the morning he came again into the temple..." He proclaimed himself as "the light of the world", and at the end of the chapter when they thought to stone him, he "went out of the temple" etc. and in chapter 9, again proclaimed himself as "the light of the world" and healed a man born blind. The Lord Jesus meets up with that man later, then Jesus starts preaching to "some of the Pharisees which were with him". After his discourse on the Good Shepherd, there was a division among the Jews, and:

"Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?" (John 10:21)

Plainly the same day he healed the man born blind, Jn.10:22,23-- "And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch."

And then he reminds them of what he had "said" unto them earlier that day in the discourse on the Good Shepherd, equated himself with the Father, and they thought to stone him again, he escaped: "And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode." (Jn.10:40)

Plainly, everything from John 8:2 to John 10:39 was on the 23rd day of the month which Wycliffe Encylopedia indicates is the "dedication of Solomon's temple", obviously the "feast of the dedication".

Grace be to them that receive the love of the truth. Amen. --Richard


[4]

"summer and winter"

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: THE Dedication

>>RC> I have no problem whatsoever with anyone observing Channukah, but it is not right to make false claims about the Bible, or about Jesus.

>CQ> [name] says: it is not nice to accuse either Richard. Since we are not making false claims, and since you wish to believe in Wesley that is ok by me, but it doesn't make us wrong to disagree with you either.

Is that not a false claim in the very statement above, where you say that you were "not making false claims", since you know very well that I never claimed to "believe in Wesley", as you say?

(I believe, and am fully persuaded, that Jesus is the Lord! :)

>>RC> In John 7:37 was "the last day, that great day of the feast" of Tabernacles.

>CQ> [name] says: There is no reason to add to scripture Richard. The Scriptures do not state on the last day that great daY OF THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES, and you fully know that. To add to the word of G-d to make a point is a no no in our circles Richard.

[name], [name], The NINE words between the quote-symbols are quoted EXACTLY from John 7:37p. The last 2 CONTEXT words are from John 7:2p. ("...better is a neighbour that is near than a brother far off." :)

>CQ> One last point Richard, when the Feast of Tabernacles is observed correctly it is at the end of Fall and before Winter sets in. That way the folks can live for 8 days in Booths outside which is still the custom of our people today that are Orthodox.

>CQ> in Mid winter is the Feast of Dedication or Hannukkah observed since the days of Macabees...

Mid winter? You just supported my point! In Gen.8:22p, the year is divided into "summer and winter", and the Feast of Tabernacles is, of course, after the end of summer, and therefore in the winter. The Roman season "Fall" is the first part of the biblical "winter", and the solstice is MID-winter, (when Romans say "winter begins." :) And Tabernacles is not at the "end" of the Roman "Fall", but near the BEGINNING of their fall, and the biblical "winter". The "morning" after the final/last day of Tabernacles is in the biblical "winter".

>CQ> have a great day.

"Every day with Jesus is sweeter than the day before"!

Grace be to your heart, in love for Jesus' sake. Amen. --Richard


[5]

Solomon's Porch

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: THE Dedication

>>>CQ> However, if you desire to put forward a thesis that somehow my people celebrated the dedication of Solomon's Temple as an annual holiday, you will have to come up with some proofs to that effect.

>>RC> The "Chart of Jewish Festivals" on page 600 of the Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia, plainly says, "dedication of Solomon's temple" as being observed on the 23rd of Eth'anim/Tis'ri, the day after the special/final ("great") day of the Feast of Tabernacles.

>CQ> There is no place in Jewish History or Jewish philosophy in which the Holiday of Sukkot or Tabernacles is observed as a dedication holiday that i know of.

The dedication on the 23rd day is the morning AFTER the eighth/last day of "Sukkot", not at the same time. Historically, it WAS observed at the same time as Tabernacles for double 7 days when the temple was first dedicated, as noted in 1Kings 8:65,66 and 2Chron.7:8-10.

>CQ> I don't think you understood what I said: Solomon's Temple was long ago demolished by the Babylonians. The Temple standing in Y'shua's day was Zerubabbel's Temple in which yes there was a Solomon's porch...

The Babylonians BURNT the temple area and broke up the parts of the buildings that could not be burnt, but left the giant paving stones intact in the eastern portico. Herod demolished most of Zerubabbel's temple when he rebuilt and enlarged the house of God and the various courts in the temple area; but again, the giant stones in Solomon's porch, where "Jesus walked", are the very stones built by Solomon:

In the days of king Agrippa, after Herod's temple was finished, it was decided to re-employ the idle workers to rebuild the eastern cloisters, but Agrippa vetoed the idea: "considering that it is easy to demolish any building, but hard to build it up again, and that it was particularly hard to do it to those cloisters, which would require a considerable time, and great sums of money, he denied the petitioners their request about that matter".

"These cloisters belonged to the outer court, and were situated in a deep valley, and had walls that reached four hundred cubits [in length], and were built of square and very white stones, the length of each of which stones was twenty cubits, and their height six cubits. This was the work of king Solomon, who first of all built the entire temple." (--Antiquities of the Jews, XX,ix,7p)

Therefore: Jesus was walking in SOLOMON'S PORCH on the very stones of the porch Solomon built, that remained to that day; which day was immediately after the final day of the Feast of Tabernacles, the 23rd of Ethanim, as has been proven in previous messages.

(Please see next message. Thanks. :)


[6]

Morning pasture

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: [1/2] THE Dedication

>RC> Subject: THE Dedication

>>RC> Jesus was walking in SOLOMON'S PORCH on the very stones of the porch Solomon built, that remained to that day; which day was immediately after the final day of the Feast of Tabernacles, the 23rd of Ethanim, as has been proven in previous messages.

>CQ> Actually the Solomon's Porch was the name of the Porch, but it was not the actual porch built by Solomon, because the Temple had been burnt down, by the army of King Nebuchadnezzar.

Look again. My statement said that Jesus was WALKING on "the very stones of the porch Solomon built, that remained to that day". The buildings with wood (cedar, olive, etc.) were burnt with fire, and walls and pillars were broken up, but the HUGE white limestone paving blocks, sawed with saws, remained. Last summer [1995] I found out how easy it is to cut limestone, using an ordinary wood-cutting tree saw. Although it took me more than a half hour to cut about eight inches, the saw is still painfully sharp after many such cuts. (The stones Solomon had cut are many times thicker than those I cut! :)

BTW: "Autumn" is a division of the "Roman Calendar". The Bible gives two divisions of the year: "summer and winter" (Gen.8:22p.) Succoth, in the 7th month, is part of the six months of "winter" when it is NIGHT on the north pole. Mid-winter is midnight on the north pole. (You people "down under" in the southern hemisphere just experienced the END of summer, and sunset of the year; while up here, "the winter is past", and the sunrise of the summer "day" is blossoming with smiley-faced pansies and other "Happy Campers". :)

>CQ> The Good Shepherd takes his sheep into the sheepfold during the cold winter months John 10:1-4.

There is no mention of time of year in the parable of John 10:1-5. Shepherds generally gather their sheep into sheepfolds at NIGHT and lead them out at sunrise to pasture. Summer sheepfolds are commonly open air partial enclosures, and Winter sheepfolds are commonly more enclosed structures, such as caves and buildings, with feed provided for the sheep when the pasture is frozen. Jesus plainly said that the sheep of his parable, "shall go in and out, and find pasture."

>CQ> In the seventh month it was warm enough in Israel when Yeshua was born for the shepherds to be out in the fields watching over their sheep. Luke 2:7-14.

That's because of the lag of the seasons and/or unseasonable warm weather, (such as "Indian Summer" - a warm day after first frost. :)

I don't have sheep, but cats. It's early morning as this part of this message is being written, and I just let them out the door to their open air "fold" and "pasture" where, yes, cats do eat GRASS! (They also like to sneak out of the fold into the garden by the vine tree where their favorite vegetarian snack is thriving: CATNIP! :)

(Please see next message. Thanks. :)


[7]

The morning after

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: [1/2] Dedication (John 10

>CQ> Actually the teachings of Yeshua in John 10:22 indicate that he was celebrating an eight Chanukah festival.

>CQ> If you start from John 8:12 -10:39 You will see that his teachings correspond, to that of the Jewish teachings during Chanukah.

Immediately after Jesus told the woman taken in adultery to "go, and sin no more." John 8:12 continues-- "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world..."

The statement was made "early in the morning", the day after the "last day, that great day" of the feast of tabernacles. Plainly the events were taking place on the 23rd day of the [7th] month, not two months later on day 25 of the [9th] month. (Can't you see that? :)

Now, if you want to include the teachings in John as part of your observance of Channukah, fine; but don't claim that Jesus' night on the mount of Olives in John 8:1 lasted two months.

>>RC> 1. 23rd Ethanim/Tishri - dedication of Solomon's temple.

>>RC> Beginning in John chapter 7, you have the 7 days of the feast of TABERNACLES; and the 8th or convocation day which falls on the 22nd of Ethanim/Tishri. There is no mention of Jesus leaving Jerusalem before the John 10:22 "feast of the dedication". The next day after the 22nd is the 23rd, the feast of the dedication of Solomon's temple.

(Please see next message. Thanks. :)


[8]

Herod?

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: The morning after

>CQ> Herod's Temple was an enlargement of the Temple of Nehemiah.

Nehemiah? King Cyrus (in Ezra) ordered the 2nd temple built.
(Nehemiah was in charge of building the WALL around Jerusalem. :)

>CQ> Although the Temple in Yeshua's day was built by Herod who was a gentile Edomite a son of Esau it was still called the Temple.

Herod's father, Antipater, was an Idumean by citizenship, but Josephus affirms with Nicolaus of Damascus that "Antipater was of the stock of the principal Jews who came out of Babylon into JudŠa". (Herod's mother was Arabian.) Herod was a circumcised follower of Judaism, (to some extent,) and was ordained King of the Jews.

>CQ> Look it up in your encyclopedia, under Herod. Luke 1:5.
>CQ> This was not the same Herod who crucified Yeshua. Luk 23:7.

Herod didn't crucify him, and Pilate washed his hands and turned the Lord Jesus over to the will of the JEWS who desired his death.

"But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate sath unto them, Shall I crucify your king? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away." (Jn.19:15,16)

"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which which in JudŠa are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost." (1Thes.2:14-16)

But of course, Herod and Pilate CONSENTED to his death, violating the law and conscience by not delivering Jesus from wicked men.

"For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done." (Ac.4:27,28)

Are we better than they? Nay. After all, "Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures"! He was buried and rose from the dead for our justification through faith in his BLOOD. Therefore the word of faith says, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved! (Don't delay... PRAY! :)

Grace be to them that cherish the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. --Richard


[9]

GRACE!

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: [2/2] Dedication (John 10

>>CQ2> There is no argument that Mr Clark can follow to make it anything different.

>CQ> I wonder how he will try to explain away Purim. After all we are told that "all scripture is given by inspiration of God,

There was nothing in my message to try to explain away Channukah, which is not mentioned in the Author's Version of the Holy Bible. (Shame on you for misrepresenting me, SISTER. :)

Plainly, though, the "morning" of John 8:2 followed the "day" of John 7:37, and therefore was 23 Ethanim/Tisri, not Kislev the 25th.

>CQ> As far as I can recall the book of Esther is part of the Scriptures too.

Amen. And the new testament equivalent of the "name" Esther, is "Easter" and is very much a part of the scriptures of truth TOO!

>CQ> Therefore Purim also should be kept by those who claim to be joined to Israel in her New Covenant.

Nonsense. Christians aren't joined to apostate Israel, but are joined to the Lord Jesus Christ himself in his new testament. We're not under the law, but under grace. (Be not deceived. :)

>CQ> Just as Yeshua endorsed the keeping of a "Rabbinical" festival such as Chanukah...

Nonsense. The true Jesus of the HOLY Bible endorsed no such thing. Remember that Jesus is the Lord and be not wise in your own conceits. Grace be to them that love the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. --Richard


[10]

MORNING GRACE!

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: GRACE!

>>>CQ> Therefore Purim also should be kept by those who claim to be joined to Israel in her New Covenant.

>>RC> Nonsense. Christians aren't joined to apostate Israel, but are joined to the Lord Jesus Christ himself in his new testament. We're not under the law, but under grace. (Be not deceived. :)

>CQ> "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.

There is no doubt that I'm in Christ, (and Christ is in me,) but I'm geographically in the "commonwealth of Kentucky", not the modern "state of Israel" (which is not presently a commonwealth.) Even Christ is considered to be an "alien" in Psalm 69. (cf.John 2:17)

>>>CQ> Just as Yeshua endorsed the keeping of a "Rabbinical" festival such as Chanukah...

>>RC> Nonsense. The true Jesus of the HOLY Bible endorsed no such thing. Remember that Jesus is the Lord and be not wise in your own conceits.

>CQ> Did you actually read where that quote came from?

Both quotes [1Cor.12:3p & Rom.12:16p] are from the apostle of the Gentiles, who says, I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue: "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." (1Cor.12:3)

In simple numerics, with A thru Z equal to 1 thru 26, the five words, "that Jesus is the Lord" add to 233. The words "the Lord Jesus Christ" also add to 233, & "MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSIN" is 233.

BEHOLD: "a door was opened in heaven" (Rev.4:1p) adds to 233.

As the Lord Jesus Christ says: "I AM THE DOOR!" (Amen. Even so! :)

The GRACE of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. --Richard


[11]

(1) Morning after

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: The morning after

>>RC> Immediately after Jesus told the woman taken in adultery to "go, and sin no more." John 8:12 continues-- "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world..."

>>RC> The statement was made "early in the morning", the day after the "last day, that great day" of the feast of tabernacles. Plainly the events were taking place on the 23rd day of the [7th] month, not two months later on day 25 of the [9th] month.

>CQ> My point was that it says "Then spake Jesus AGAIN unto them. There is no limit to the period between the time he spoke to the woman and when he spoke again. It does not say that it was the same day, or even the following day. It just says "again."

It first says: "THEN..."! ("Then" means, "at that TIME." :)

>CQ> If you take careful note you will see that when Jesus said these things to the woman, they were alone. All of the accusers were gone, see verses 9 and 10.

The rest of the crowd and disciples he was TEACHING were not among the accusers that were no longer in the "midst" of the crowd.

>CQ> A different time altogether.

Are you that blind? WHERE was Jesus, the woman, and accusers? Right: In the MIDST! The accusers departed from the MIDST of "all the people" (Jn.8:2p) and blended back into the crowd, while Jesus was still stooping down, LOWER than the woman, WRITING on the ground, and "the woman STANDING in the midst." (STARK NAKED?!)

She was taken in the VERY ACT! Shem and Japheth went backward to lay a garment on Noah's nakedness, but did this woman's captors have the common decency to allow her a covering? Was Jesus gawking at her? He averted his eyes, looking down at the ground, WRITING something for the DECENT people to look at since they were looking down too! When Jesus told her to "go, and sin no more", she skeedaddled!

THEN Jesus spoke again unto "the people" he was teaching, saying, "I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." (Jn.8:12p)

>CQ> The 23rd of Tishri/Ethanim was a commanded assembly of HASHEM, not the Dedication of Solomon's Temple. Lev. 23:33-39. 39. . . . . on the first day shall be a Sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a Sabbath.

The 15th is the first day of the feast of tabernacles, and the 22nd is the eighth day. (The "morning" after is the 23rd day! :)

Remember that Jesus is the Lord and receive the love of the truth.
Grace be to you and yours for Jesus' sake. Amen. --Richard


[12]

(2) Morning after

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: The morning after

>>>>RC> 23rd Ethanim/Tishri - dedication of Solomon's temple.

>CQ> The dedication of Solomon's altar lasted for seven days, and it fell during the time of the Feast of Tabernacles.

That feast and dedication lasted, "seven days and seven days, even fourteen days." (1Kings 8:65p)

>CQ> They observed the eighth day which was Shemini Atzerat (the eighth day) which is a restraining on the eighth day.

The eighth day (22 Ethanim/Tishri) is the great "assembly" day. (See Lev.23)

>CQ> They returned to their homes on the ninth day.

"On the eighth day he sent the people away..." (1Kings 8:66p)

"And in the eighth day they made a solemn assembly: for they kept the dedication of the altar seven days, and the feast seven days." (2Chron.7:9)

"And on the three and twentieth [23rd] day of the seventh month he sent the people away into their tents..." (2Chron.7:10p)

If we claim that the 8th day that he "sent the people away" in 1st Kings is the same as the 23rd day of the 7th month where he sent the people to their tents in 2Chron, then WHEN did the 14 days begin and end? The 1st day of the feast of Tabernacles was supposed to be observed on the 15th day of the month. IF the other seven days were before then, there would be a conflict with having a feast on "the fast day", Day of Atonement (10th day of the 7th month.)

That leaves us with the 14 days from the 15th through the 28th day of the seventh month. The eighth day from the 15th would be the 22nd day, not the 23rd, and the eighth day from the 22nd, (beginning of the second seven days,) would be the 29th day of the month.

That leaves us with the conclusion that on the 23rd day of the month, after the "assembly" on the 22nd day of the month, they were sent to their tents, but yet, the feast continued through that 2nd seven day period through the 28th day of the month, and the 8th day of the second seven-day period, the 29th day of the month, they were finally sent away to their homes.

Your claim about them returning to their homes on the 9th day is partially correct, in that they were sent to their tents on the 23rd day of the month which would be the 9th of the 14 days, but they only went to "tents" not their home lands, since the feast continued until that 2nd period of seven days was complete. They were not staying in BOOTHS, but tents, while away from home at the feast. (No doubt you remember that after the days of Joshua, they did not observe the "booths" part of the commandment until the days of Nehemiah 8:14-17. :)

(Please see next message. Thanks. :)


[13]

Morning sickness?

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: The morning after

>CQ> Hag. 2:15-18. The blessing is from the 24th day of Kislev, the ninth month, the eve of Chanukah. The Foundation of Nehemiah's Temple was laid on that day. Yeshua our Foundation was laid at the Time of Chanukah this corresponds to the timing of Miriam being overshadowed by the Holy Spirit and conceiving Yeshua.

You elsewhere mentioned Jesus was born at the feast of Tabernacles? which is my view also. The normal "clinical" measure of pregnancy is 40 weeks, but that is measured from the last monthly "period", which is about 14 days BEFORE ovulation, so the actual term is 38 weeks or 266 days, which is about 9 months. Nine months before the 15th day of the 7th month, would be the 15th day of the 10th month (or 11th month if there was a 13th V'adar/Adar-sheni month intercalated.)

The "beloved physician" Luke's account of Jesus' birth does not indicate anything abnormal, but that Mary gave birth at the normal "time", neither pre-mature nor late. (The "lively" hebrews in Exodus seemingly delivered children before the mid-wives' arrival. :)

>CQ> Luke. 1:26-36. This took place when Elizabeth was six months pregnant, her own conception of John took place just after Shavuot - Pentecost, when Zechariah returned home from serving in the Temple.

Zacharias was of the (8th) course of Abia, which served from 12-18 Sivan(3rd mo.) which is after Pentecost (6 Sivan). Since Elizabeth was old (past menopause?) and barren! instead of a missed period, 1st indication of her pregnancy may have been (yuck) morning sickness.

At any rate, she was less than six months pregnant when Mary conceived. Notice in Luke 1:24, that she hid herself FIVE MONTHS from conception and was therefore five-plus months pregnant, in her 6th month. Nine months after 18 Sivan puts the birth of John the Baptist sometime later than the 18th day of the 12th month. (Although we can't claim John was born "exactly" 6 months before Jesus, we can be certain he was born less than 7 months before. :)

(Please see next message. Thanks. :)


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(1) Jesus' birth

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: Morning sickness?

>>RC> You elsewhere mentioned Jesus was born at the feast of Tabernacles? which is my view also.

>CQ> I think you have your wires crossed here. I believe that Yeshua was born at the Feast of Trumpets. Which is the "Coming of the King."

Well, in the context of our discussion involving the feast of tabernacles, you said: "In the seventh month it was warm enough in Israel when Yeshua was born for the shepherds to be out in the fields..." (--CQ, 10Feb97 13:13)

You didn't mention what day in the seventh month, but the feast of tabernacles and the "Morning After" were the only days of the 7th month mentioned prior to that in the context of the discussion.

Please explain why you choose the 1st day of the 7th month. Christ's 1st advent was as Saviour, and 2nd advent will be as King of Kings.

It was on the last day of the feast of tabernacles that we find:

"Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?" (Jn.7:42)

A veiled reference to Jesus' birth in Bethlehem (on the 22nd day of the 7th month.) It seems apparent in Luke, that after Jesus' birth they stayed in Bethlehem for the 40 days of Mary's purification; then took Jesus to the temple in Jerusalem to present him to the Lord, etc., and then returned to Nazareth. If he was born on the 1st of Ethanim/Tishri, why does Luke not mention them leaving Bethlehem to attend the feast of tabernacles? (If he was born after the 7th day of tabernacles, on the 8th day, then there would be no special events in the following 40 days to mention. :)

Likewise, Jesus was baptized on his 30th birthday, and immediately spent 40 days being tempted in the wilderness. If born on the 1st, he would have been absent from the feast of tabernacles, violating the law requiring all males to appear before the Lord in Jerusalem. If born on the 22nd, the 40 wilderness days following his birthday baptism would not be in conflict with other scheduled activities.

"So there was a division among the people because of him." (!)

(Please see next message. Thanks. :)


[15]

(2) Jesus' birth

From a message by a Curious Questioner--
>CQ> Subject: Morning sickness?

>>RC> The normal "clinical" measure of pregnancy is 40 weeks, but that is measured from the last monthly "period", which is about 14 days BEFORE ovulation, so the actual term is 38 weeks or 266 days, which is about 9 months. Nine months before the 15th day of the 7th month, would be the 15th day of the 10th month (or 11th month if there was a 13th V'adar/Adar-sheni month intercalated.)

>>RC> At any rate, she was less than six months pregnant when Mary conceived. Notice in Luke 1:24, that she hid herself FIVE MONTHS from conception and was therefore five-plus months pregnant, in her 6th month. Nine months after 18 Sivan puts the birth of John the Baptist sometime later than the 18th day of the 12th month.

>CQ> Regarding the Courses of the priesthood I had a book which showed them, but I no longer have it. However it did indicate that the course of Abiah began before Shavuot. As all of the Priests served at the Holy Days, Zechariah would have to stay until after Shavuot.

It does not say he stayed after his course was complete: "And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house." (Lk.1:23)

>CQ> Shavuot did not have a set date then, the sixth of Sivan was set as the "date" of Shavuot after the fall of the Temple.

The 6 Sivan date is based on the 15th of Abib, the 1st day of the feast of unleavened bread being a "sabbath", so the 16th of Abib would be a "morrow after the sabbath" for the firstfruits observance. However, Lev.23:16p puts the "fifty days" on the "morrow after the seventh sabbath", which obviously indicates weekly sabbaths; so fixing the 6th of Sivan for Pentecost isn't exactly scriptural.

Since the weekly sabbath could fall on any of the days from the 15th through the 21st, the "morrow" could fall on the 16th through 22nd; which would put the morrow after the seventh sabbath on one of the days from the 6th through 12th Sivan (3rd month) for Pentecost, which is not a week-long observance, but a one-day observance.

The priests serve 4 weeks per year: 1 week twice a year in courses, and the two week-long feasts, unleavened bread and tabernacles. Pentecost is a one-day observance, which would have come before Zacharias' (the 8th) course began, or at the latest, the 1st day of his course, which was from 12 thru 18 Sivan, or noon on the 19th, if Josephus is correct that courses changed at noon on the sabbaths.

The 24 weekly courses twice a year total 48 weeks, plus the 2 weeks of the 1st and 7th month feasts, total 50 weeks, the number of weeks in a 12-lunar-month year of alternating 30 and 29 day months. (What courses would serve in the weeks of an intercalated 13th month? But of course, there are only twelve months mentioned in the Bible. :)

Grace be to you and yours, for Jesus' sake. Amen. --Richard



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